Talking Shop with Misty Shaw
In this podcast episode, Megan Wimberley interviews Misty Shaw, who comes from the leather working and western retail industry. They discuss the importance of celebrating and sharing the work of female Western artists, as well as the need for artists to be open to feedback and continually develop their craft. Misty also talks about the evolution of the industry, with more independent artisans entering the market and consumers valuing products with a personal connection and a story behind them. Misty encourages women to love what they do, find a balance that works for them, and have confidence in their skills and abilities.
Transcript
Hello and welcome to Cowgirl Artists of America's podcast. I'm your host and the founder of CGA Megan Wimberley. I'm excited to share today's conversation with you. This conversation was with Misty Shaw and she comes from the leather working in western retail industry, specifically Burns and Shop Talk magazine. And if you don't know about Shoptalk, you want to make sure to check them out. If you're a leather worker, they have incredible resources. It is an invaluable magazine, so make sure you check them out and check out their educational side to that company as well. They have so many good resources and opportunities for you. This conversation was just so much fun to have, Misty. You can tell she's very passionate and she's very thoughtful and really knows her stuff. And we talk about everything from how to be open to feedback, how to develop a dedication to your craft, all the way to the importance of celebrating and sharing the work of Western female western artists. And I know that you are going to get so much out of this. I hope that it inspires you on your artistic journey. And also I hope that you just enjoyed listening to this conversation as much as I enjoyed having it. Hi, Misty.
Misty (:Hi Megan.
Megan (:How are you doing today?
Misty (:So good. Just enjoying all the snow we're getting finally.
Megan (:Yeah, I've heard it's been a little bit kind of droughty up there.
Misty (:It has. It really has. So we're super happy to see those big, fluffy flakes outside.
Megan (:That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for agreeing to be on the podcast. I'm really excited about this interview.
Misty (:We're excited to be here. I'm excited to be here. I should say.
Megan (:Well, I met you because Morgan Booker, who's on our board, and she's a boot maker, had told me about you, and I reached out, and then I feel like when we had our Zoom chat with one another, it was just instant on the same page connection, and it was so cool. And just your passion, I was like, oh, we've got to have you on the podcast to share your story and your work. And I think there's going to be a lot for artists to take from this, both Leather Smiths and also the fine artists. There's so much overlap there. So you have a lot of irons in the fire between Burns and Shop Talk, and so we'll address all those. But I want to start just with, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Misty (:Yeah, sure. So first and foremost, I am the wife of Braden and he is the sixth generation owner of our family company. And the mother of five busy, active, brilliant, hilarious, beautiful daughters, which keep us hopping. They're very busy. The youngest is 11, and our oldest will be 20 in May. So we have a lot going on there. But I would say that's definitely my number one priority. And then yes, we do have a lot going on with the company. I oversee our media company, which houses the leather industry publication, our online learning platform and our industry events. And so that definitely keeps me busy. And never in a billion years did I ever think that I would be doing what I do. And it's funny how sometimes I would just say God puts things in your path very unexpectedly and you're just thrown into things that you have no idea how to do, and you end up just knowing that this is exactly where you need to be. It's been such a blessing and definitely the most rewarding, best thing I've ever done in the company. And I just love it. I love what I do. I love my work. So I guess that's me in a nutshell.
Megan (:Yeah, that's awesome. And so Burns is really a pretty incredible company. It's the oldest western retail business that still operated by a descendant or descendants of the founder. Can you tell us a little bit more about Burns?
Misty (:Absolutely. So our founder, miles Limona Burns is my husband's great, great, great grandfather, and he was born in the Midwest and traveled, I guess journeyed West with the Mormon pioneers and came here to settle Utah, obviously from the get go from his beginning and at a very young age, he and his mother were asked to go settle a region in central Utah, which is kind of close to Capital Reef National Park and Goblin Valley and some of those areas. Anyways, he was a talented boy, a really Ingenu and just at a very young age opened his own blacksmith and harness repair shop. And so that's where we got our beginning was in a little town called Loa, Utah. And since then, each generation has just really done whatever needed to be done in order to survive and thrive and to be able to pass that on to the next generation.
(:We've been in Salina, Utah since 1898 and now have four manufacturing arms. So we build saddles, we build boots, we build hats, and we have a silver company where we build belts and sterling silver and gold buckles and jewelry and things like that. We have the retail location there in Salina where we've been forever. We have a retail location in Park City, Utah. We have a retail location in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. We have three full-time brand reps on the road that fit saddles all across the nation and educate horsemen, mainly athletes in the industry about themselves and their horses and how to properly get the best results from their saddle and from themselves and keeping their horses strong and healthy. So that's a lot of fun. And then we obviously have the media companies, which is the baby of all the companies because that fell into our laps about seven years ago, and that's just quickly expanded.
(:But we have a lot going on. Like I said, my husband is the sixth generation owner in the family company, which is super exciting. And all of our girls work in the company right now. Our oldest daughter works in our retail space in Park City and has done that for a few years. And then the other girls build our hat bands. They build some of our hat bands, so they have a little shop that's just in the house downstairs and they get out the dye and spot and they go to the shop and make sure those are clicked out. And so that's a lot of fun. But one thing that we have always done in the company is just really embodied that spirit of the West and that kind of pioneering spirit, seeking a better life, better, doing whatever it takes to survive, elevating life experiences through what we're doing, helping others, those kinds of things. So it's pretty incredible. We feel very blessed.
Megan (:That's awesome. Yeah, I was looking at the websites for everything, just refreshing my memory this morning and I had taken some notes, but it just seemed like everybody really talked about the community aspect of the organization and how supported everyone feels. And so I thought that was a real that. And then the other thing that kept sticking out to me was success and giving people the tools, doing your best work and just having that quality. And it seemed like that was repeated over and over again, no matter who was talking, which was really cool to see. Now, the Shop Talk magazine, that's part of the media company, correct. And so how old is it? Seven years?
Misty (:We acquired it in 2017, so in April of 2017. So we're nearing our seventh year of ownership, but the magazine was actually founded in 2000, January, 2000 was the very first issue. And happenstance being, we were actually acquiring the silver company that we own in 2016 in California, and this is Sunset Trails. And a writer for Shop Talk at the time happened to be in California and was doing a story on the Staton family who owned Sunset Trails and Little he didn't know, but we were there for a week kind of learning the ropes I guess, because we had acquired the company. So Nick Occus, one of my writers still, he happened to be there to do this interview and was introduced to us and our company, and that was it. And then a few months later he called and said, Hey, the owner of the magazine is wanting to retire.
(:And I immediately thought of you guys, with everything else you're doing in the industry, I think this would be a really great fit with what you're doing overall with your company and within the industry. And we have always talked about bright shiny things and big ideas and things that, oh, if we had the capacity or the time or people resources, we would love to do A, B, C, D, E, fill in the blank. I think we all do that as entrepreneurs, but it wasn't exactly what we had talked about, but it really tied into some of those future ambitions. And so it was a really great deal, the acquisition, and we couldn't pass it up, but it really just kind of fell into our lap. And then it was all of us frantically Googling, what does a magazine editor do? We just had no experience.
(:And I actually think that was really a blessing because we had a hundred and almost 40 some years of experience of being in the industry. We were very much in the industry and had those connections and knew what was important to us. And so we were like, what kind of publication would we want to create that would add value to people like us? And that's really what we set out to do with the very, very first issue. It was quite frantic, but we figured it out. And I just feel like it's just gotten better and better and better and has a blast because it's allowed us really to kind of step out of the tunnel. Because when you're a business owner, you really do kind of just operate with blinders on and you're very much focused, which is good. You need to be focused in order to accomplish what you set out to do. But what the magazine has really done for us is that it's allowed us to kind of step outside of that tunnel and take a 30,000 foot view of the entire leather industry from the ranchers that are raising the cattle to the meat packing plant, to the tannery, to the finished good, the distributor of materials to the artisan, to the consumer. And so it's really just allowed us to see the industry as a whole in a more bigger, broader worldwide picture, which has been so cool.
Megan (:Yeah, that's great for the artists too because the artists do the same thing. They get into their tunnel vision of what they're doing. And so this was a big point, a big topic when you and I were talking, but the places where artists need help or maybe that they have blinders on that they don't see something. And so with Shop Talk, being able to have that much experience behind it and then zooming out and being able to help artists through various, because there's an educational component to it, being able to help them grow their business is super valuable.
Misty (:It really is. The one thing that I think has been the biggest eyeopener is for me is that I meet all of these incredible people who are extremely talented at what they do and could very well make a good living at doing what they love, but they just have no idea how to manage a business. And if they just had some basic foundational skills and knowledge, they could really, really just do exactly what they want to do forever and be perfectly happy and content, which is something that we really strived to do in the magazine. It was one thing that we changed immediately. I mean, we changed everything within the first issue. We redesigned, we didn't give it a new name, but we really refreshed the branding and the look and the feel, and we got rid of some content that we were like, why is that in there?
(:That doesn't add value at all. What could we replace that with that could be beneficial and useful to these subscribers, to this community? So I mean, one of the things that we did immediately was offer small business advice because typically that's exactly what it is. It's a one to 10 man shop, and just when you're that small, you wear every single hat. And so just knowing what hat to put on at what time of the day and what's the most important thing to do in order to be able to continue to do what you're doing
Megan (:For sure. And it's so hard. Many artists just research and research and research to learn, but then it's great to know that there's resources like Shop Talk and Cowgirl Artists of America that we've, the research, we're coming from a place of experience and research and a lot of times having experienced from multiple people, and it just helps lower that burden of you're not having to start from scratch. You have a core knowledge that's being shared with you, which saves so much time,
Misty (:So much time, and so much trial and error. That was one of our motivations to launch the online learning platform because with the magazine, we talk to people, we talk to artisans all over the world every single day, and suppliers all over the world, every single day. And it's like, okay, from the artisan point of view, they need to know where do I get what I need to do, what I want to do, or who can teach me to do this thing that I want to learn how to do? And then from the supplier aspect, it was like, how do I get my product or my service out there to more people, to the right audience? What can you do to help me do that? And so really the motivation for the online learning platform was to, it was kind of, it's kind of our solution to help solve those issues because okay, we're connecting them, and this is still a work in progress.
(:Number one was, okay, we've got to get people access to the artisan, the expert in the art form, whatever it is that they're doing, so that they can be taught the right way. Because there are lots of things that exist out there in the teaching realm nowadays. I mean, anybody can sit down with their iPhone and do something and call it teaching, but as you know, especially as an artist yourself and working with artisans, there are right ways to do things and there are wrong ways to do things. And when you've learned to do things the wrong way, it's a lot harder to unlearn and reteach yourself correct ways. And so it was our goal to find those high level experts, bring them into a controlled environment in a studio atmosphere, and really sit down and say, okay, if we're going to teach them how to do this thing or create this project, whatever, let's talk about what the foundational skills are.
(:Because we want them to not only walk away with this duffle bag, we want them to walk away with the skills that they need in order to go replicate that in their own unique way and feel confident that they're able to do so. And then with the supplier, we're working on being able to get those connections made where the student would be able to access supplies directly in the courses, which is a work in progress. It's phase phase, I don't know what yet, but we're working on it, but just trying to answer the call there because it is definitely, it's an issue that we heard over and over and over again. And so it's very important that we teach the right things.
Megan (:So I kind of am taking a different direction with this question than what I had intended, but I think from the helping side, when we look at, there's the artist side and then there's the helping and the education side, and oftentimes they're on the education side, or when you're dealing with a lot of artists, you start to see some things that artists, like we talked about, they don't notice. And so as you're talking about this, there's a right way and a wrong way to do things that can be so hard to get through to artists, especially I'll say it's probably harder for fine artists because there's this approach of it's art and there's no wrong way. While that is true in some ways, you really need to understand the rules in order to break them. And so what have you experienced here? You can answer one of two questions I think either have you experienced having a hard time on the education side helping ours to understand, no, this is kind of a cop out for not doing high quality work and we need to teach you the right way so you have that foundation.
(:Or alternatively, you could answer the question, how do you help artists to understand that yes, you have this artistic license, but there's this expectation for quality and craftsmanship, and this is how you identify where you are and where you need to go?
Misty (:Yeah, man, like you said, it is such a challenge I think for us, because typically we have in burns in our shops, we have, I don't know what the number is, I'm going to just roughly 60 artisans that work in our saddle shop, our boot shop, our hat shop, and our silver shop. And so we're working with the artist demographic in our company all day, every day. And we strive. I mean, so our process there is really, you're going to do this one thing and you're going to do it over and over and over and over again until it's like second nature, I can do it with my eyes closed and until it reaches quality every single time. And although that gets a little mundane for them, then we just work them through each stage of the process. So at the end, so for example, I mean I think number one, with an artisan, there needs to be some humility and awareness.
(:It's okay to have learned what you've learned and have been applying that process, but don't be so arrogant that you are unwilling to adventure into a new better way. Be open, be open to constant, never ending learning. I mean, we really encourage that. In our company, one of our core values is we strive to be experts in our field, and we reiterate that all the time by recognizing and offering opportunities for extra learning because we know we all have infinitely more things to learn in life in whatever aspect of life it is with the artistry. It's like being open to other methods, being open to listening to people that maybe you don't even, maybe you think they're arrogant and what they say is just always pricks your skin. I don't know. But be willing, be willing, have the awareness that there are always going to be ways to improve and get better.
(:Be open when the opportunity or the knowledge comes, receive it, receive it, and then maybe it's courageous. Don't be fearful to admit that maybe I was not doing it the best way, just own it and be like, yeah, man, I did it for this way for 10 years, but then I learned this new way and it saves me time and my product at the end is just such a better result and I'm so much happier and I want to share this. So there's that aspect. But going back to the way that we teach artisans, and the crazy thing is, which this almost is kind of really unique in the industry to us, but we don't require that you have any experience whatsoever. You can be a high school kid that just graduated from high school and think, man, I really want to learn how to build a saddle and come into our shop and we will teach you how to build a saddle from the ground up with no skills whatsoever.
(:And I think just that in itself shows that we are willing and that willing to take you through that process and that it is important to always be open to learning. But one thing that's really, really cool about the way we do that, let's learn this part of this project, this product, and perfecting that and then moving on and perfecting this. We had quite a few of our team enter saddles in the novice saddle competition in Pendleton, Oregon in November and in the novice. And novice is like, I've only ever built a saddle start to finish all by myself. I've built less than five or I have less than five years of experience, and I've only built a handful of these on my own. And we had two, there were three places, two award and two of our gals, one first and third. And it was their very first saddles ever that they'd built from start to finish on their own.
(:And the judges, we had some really renowned judges there, some of the very best in the industry in my opinion, and they were blown away by the attention to every step of that process, the ground seat they didn't cover, because you can cover a lot of things up in certain processes. I would imagine it's that way in what I'm sure you see that also in your work, but there are ways that you can hide the shortcuts or hide the mistakes, and that's okay. We all make mistakes, nothing's ever perfect. But they were really impressed with the thorough and intention at every level and every step of that process, which was really cool. As far as working with those high level artisans in the studio, it's incredible because they totally get that. They totally get it. And I love that they're saying it all the time.
(:They're saying, every time I get into my shop, I'm learning something new. I'm going to call so-and-So because I'm really interested in what he's doing and how he's doing it or what she's doing and how she's doing it, and they're telling the younger community or those that haven't quite caught on yet all the time, you need never stop learning. When you stop learning, you are going to stop growing. You're going to stop. Things are going to stagnate for you. My mother-in-Law, who is the fifth generation owner in our family company, she always said, if you're green and grow, we need to be green and growing, not ripe and rotting. And I think that really is directly correlated with our openness, our willingness, our humility to continue to learn.
Megan (:Yeah, that's awesome. And I love that you talked about the people working at the high level are still like that because when you're at that level, you've already put in the work and you understand that there is always something to learn. So it's not about being right or wrong, it's just about a dedication to your craft. The thing that I've been saying over and over lately, it seems like it keeps coming up with this idea of taking shortcuts, and it's really, please, artists listening. Don't take shortcuts on your journey and your process because you cannot skip it. There are no shortcuts in getting to that level. And so the thing I keep saying is you have to make the ugly work to make the pretty work. You have to be willing to do the terrible, ugly misshapen things to get you to that next stage.
(:And that is perfectly okay. And it's hard, I think probably for both of us in our educational components of our work because we want to help everybody also no matter where they are, whether they're new and an emerging artist or they're well established. And so we have different ways of addressing different needs in those levels. But it's really cool when you get to see those established artists sharing their knowledge because the thing is every single person has something to offer no matter where you are. And so being able to create these communities where people can offer their knowledge, there's no pun intended here, but I had to say it this way because I also do love a good play on words. So I know boot making specifically women have found their footing. Do you see an increase in women across the board in the industry, whether leather or silver and hats do hats too?
Misty (:Yeah, that's something that we highlight in the magazine all the time because for years, the traditional arts have been dominated and they still are. They really are dominated by men. And it's so refreshing and so rewarding to see, I mean, really this younger generation and demographic and just really kind of break through the stigma maybe and the norm and venture into these areas. There are so many women boot makers, which is so wonderful. I go to a show in Wichita Falls, Texas every year in October, the Boot and Saddle Makers Roundup. And I have a dear friend Randy Moe, who is an incredible, just gentle, soft-spoken, lovely man who has been building boots for decades and he takes anyone under his wing. And it was so much fun this year in the boot competition, I don't even know. There were a handful of young 20 somethings, 30 somethings women who just slayed the competition with their skills and their creativity.
(:And so it's just so much fun to see the women thriving in that world right now. It's just so great. I have a dear friend, Nevada Watt who I guess Nevada Miller, she was a wat, but she's an incredible silversmith and is making waves in the industry. She also has an online school be a maker school where she also teaches these traditional arts, which is incredible. There are lots of women, hat makers, lots of them. There are so many women doing so many things in the traditional arts world, which is so refreshing. In fact, every April we dedicate the entire magazine to women artisans. So every single thing, every piece of content in that magazine is about women. And so we feature women in different lanes of the leather industry. We have an industry tips section, which is essentially we call on these experts and they literally just give tips.
(:It's like, man, if you could share something with the community that you wish somebody would've told you when you were 20 something grueling and going through the process of ruining hundreds of dollars of leather, what would that be? What would you tell people? And so we just got our industry tip from one of the best women, saddle makers in all of the industry. Nancy Martini, she just sent that over yesterday for our annual women's issue. And we're so excited about it. It's really one of our most beloved issues, I think, because in general, the community still thinks it is just men. And so I think it's even refreshing for the community to see that there are more women jumping into these lanes and learning these skills. In fact, I can't remember, I think it was two or three years ago for the women's issue, I had met a woman, and I can't remember her name, but she had a really unique handbag company in Turks and Caicos in the islands, and she's this beautiful island woman, and I had her on the cover and she had these beautiful models and they had tribal makeup on their faces.
(:And I remember getting so many calls and emails and they're like, why is this lady on the cover? And at first I was like, well, why not? They should be. She's doing great things in the industry. And just because what she's doing and what she looks like and what she's making doesn't fit what you think it should, doesn't mean that she doesn't deserve to be there. And the really wonderful, but that brought such a really great opportunity for me to shed light on that topic in the community. And every single person, once I was able to, whether I was on the phone or emailing them, messaging them, once I was able to explain, Hey, what we are doing with Shoptalk is elevating and uniting the worldwide leather community. We don't care where you are. We don't care what you look like. We don't care what you believe.
(:We don't care what you make. If you're doing it with leather, then we're going to put you in the magazine and we're what we are doing is all for you. And then they were like, oh yeah, that's true. That's really, really great. And so just kind of changing that thought process and narrative about what the industry is and really changing that to what it actually is. This is the reality of what the industry actually is. You may have an idea about what it is, but it's actually this and be open to accepting that and celebrating it.
Megan (:Okay. Photographers and traditional artists, this one is for you. We have an art show called Land of Legend that will be opening at the two box center of the arts in Uba, Arizona this fall. The call for art is open right now and it ends May 31st. So if you are a photographer, you leave saddle blankets, you are a boot maker, you are a silversmith, whatever it is on that traditional art side or a photographer. This show is all about you. To get more information, visit our Instagram at Cowgirl Artists of America. Click our link bio for land of legend. That'll take you to the prospectus and it'll allow you to apply there. And of course, if you have any questions, please email info at cowgirl artists of america.org. It's very interesting when you can take a step back and just with an open curious eye, look at what this industry really is and what is represented in it.
(:And so I told you about the Women's Work show, and that's the whole premise behind the Women's work show is that we go to these big western art exhibitions, and most of the work is by men and of men, and that's beautiful. And men have done those things and that's great. But I've crunched the numbers on some shows, just out of curiosity, it's not to pick on anybody. I would never say what show it is or shows it is. It's not to pick on anybody. It's just I think we have to bring curiosity. We have to open our eyes and bring curiosity to it because I know so many talented women who are horse trainers and who are artists and who do all these things. And so one of the shows I was like, I wonder what the representation of female artists was only eight or 9%.
(:And I was like, that is so low. And then when I was curious, okay, well, I'm curious about women represented in this work itself, and these are not the exact numbers I have them written down somewhere, but so don't quote me on these exact numbers, but there was 300 ish works of art. I think 90 something had men, whether there was mostly cowboys but also native men. And then there was like 80, 70 or 80 of animals and only 20 something of women. And then on top of that, the women were always presented probably 98% of the time. I can only think of two, where a woman was actually a cowgirl. They were taking care of a child, they were a child, they were doing something with food or they were just a pretty face. And women can be all those things, but they are also like my mom, who is seriously one of an incredible horse trainer, was such a gentle approach to them.
(:My great grandmama who trained a Mustang when she was 80, these women are out there doing these things and I want to see the western world that I experienced with these strong, incredible, talented women. I want to see that real reflection because the other thing that happens is when people who aren't even a part of the industry come in and they see that and they think that that's what this western world is about, and it does not adequately celebrate the contributions of women when we leave those stories out because when we leave stories out, that says something. And so this women's work show is all about that, bringing that to the forefront. And I always want to be careful to say, I don't think anybody's going. Some people, there are definitely some people who are not nice people, but typically it's not like anybody's going in being like, we want to exclude women and we don't want to show.
(:No, it's kind of the way it's been done, and it's time for us to be like, oh, let's stop for a second. And why is that? Just ask why. That's a great question to ask. And then the next question is, what do we do about it and how do we help make that better so that we can celebrate these incredible women? And so it's that visibility that you're bringing is so important. And I think with the women's work show that visibility is so important. And with the women's work show, women are actually, the artists are going out photographing women on ranches and things, and so we're celebrating real life women or indigenous cultures. And so I don't know, I love that y'all are doing that, and I think it's a worthwhile thing for us to be aware of and to make note of and to say, how do we support women?
(:If you don't know of a talented female boot maker, if you don't know of a talented female western artist, if you don't know of a talented female silversmith, you are just feeding into whatever the algorithm is showing you, and it's time for you to do a little Googling, go look up shop. Yes, go to cowgirl artists of America and find these women. Because the unfortunate truth is that I have on a few occasions heard people say, you don't see women in these places because they are not working at the same level as men, and that is tragic, and we want to change that because that's not true,
Misty (:Is not true. I think, I don't know if you've ever been in the heart of Amish country in Ohio.
Megan (:I,
Misty (:I get to go almost every year, most years for the past seven years. And the one thing that I truly, truly love about that community is that the majority of their artisans are young girls. I mean, I don't know if any of you know Weaver Leather, but they are a worldwide brand. I've been to their warehouse and their shop where they build product many times and have toured through there and know many of those sweet girls, and the majority of them building their product are women. The majority of our artisans in our shops, in our saddle shop, our boot shop, our hat shop, our silver shop, are women. I think there just needs to be more awareness, more narrative, more showcasing to change that, what would the word be? It's almost like this is what we think the traditional arts world is, but actually, if you open your eyes to it, it's actually not that.
(:It's actually not that. There's very much a big movement within the women community, and maybe it has to do with more women's rights and just bringing a whole bunch of awareness points to the table just about women in general. I mean, we've come a very long way in our country, and I think some things have a lagging effect, and I think these types of things is just a lagging effect of our progress in our nation and even around the world really. And so I just think it's being disciplined, diligent, and continually being intentional about creating that narrative and getting the truth out there and celebrating it and talking about it. I mean, we bring in women artisans into the studio to teach as often as we can. We have a gal from New York City who will be in the studio to teach handbag making in two weeks, and we're thrilled.
(:We're thrilled about that. I just think creating the narrative, flooding the industry with it, celebrating, honoring, showcasing, sharing what these women are doing is just really the only way to do it. And then encouraging those that we know or that show interest, having these resources we have, getting those resources into the hands of these young women or even whoever, not even young, just women in general who are showing interest and giving them a clear path to support them so that they feel like they can do this. There are resources out there for me to be successful, and there are people who are cheering me on and who want me to succeed, even if I'm 55 and have just found a love and an interest in this. That's great. Just also bringing that awareness to the community with all that we're doing, and I truly believe that a rising tide lifts all boats.
(:It's one of my favorite quotes. I think that united in our efforts, we do more good. I think sometimes even when we're doing all of these things, we still work with the blinders on, and if we were able to just take those off and connect with others that are doing what we're doing, our overarching goal is really to celebrate this industry and shed light on the learning and continual learning and connection and connecting them with resources and other artisans so that they can feel like they're a part of a community. That's what we're all doing. So collaborating more with others that have a mutual interest and just locking arms. I think we do more good when there are more voices, more narrative, more dialogue.
Megan (:It just makes me so happy listening to when I get to talk to other women about their organizations that they're doing, and I think I could put money on it at this point that every person I've talked to that's running some sort of educational arts-based organization for women has said the quote myself, including a rising tide lifts all ships. And I think women kind of inherently as a whole, obviously everyone's different, have this approach of community and family and doing things together. And it's a really beautiful shift, I think, in the industry because the arts have sometimes been very tight-lipped and secretive, and you only get to, if you have your mentor, then you're lucky to have that person. And women are so generous. That's one of the things I think about my community all the time is that cowgirl artists of America is full of generous people, and I think it's such a beautiful thing.
(:And as we're talking about this, I want to be clear too, because sometimes people can misunderstand the way things are said, and at no point are we saying men should not be recognized and celebrated. At no point are we. It's not about that. It's just about, Hey, it's time for women to get to catch up to where that level is so that they're getting that same recognition and the same opportunities, and it's not about, oh, you're over there purposefully doing this again. It's just about creating that awareness, helping women to grow their careers. Women have had some unique challenges too with being able to do this. Oftentimes, women are the primary caregiver for their children and maybe they're doing the cooking and the cleaning, and it adds an extra level of something that they're having to work around in order to do their art or to run their business. And so as we're looking at helping women to grow their careers, are there a few things that you think of that you see as challenges specific to women and kind of tips for approaching those?
Misty (:Yeah, sure. I mean, I'm not an artist, but I'm definitely a business woman. And like I mentioned in the beginning, I'm the mom of five kids and that is really my primary role and that's the most important to me. But I mean, I think it's important. I think it's very, very, very important that you love what you do, so if you love what you do, keep doing it because unfortunately, our work consumes the majority of our life. Really it does because we have to do it in order to survive. We just do these days. So love what you do. Second, find a balance. And I don't mean I have read, I swear every book out there on work-life balance, because I've gone through many stages of all I do is work and I'm a terrible mom and I'm a terrible wife, or the opposite. My work is suffering because I'm so focused on being a mother and being a wife, that I'm really just letting people down over here.
(:I think you need to be honest in that expectation. Figure out what works for you. Figure out your non-negotiables. If family dinner every night is important to you, then that's a non-negotiable. I am done working at this time every day, regardless of what else, what is still on my plate, whatever that is, find your non-negotiables. For me, it's like I am not working on Sunday. That is the only day that we have as a family that we don't have dance or we don't have this or we don't have that. And so it's like, that's my day that, and I don't do laundry. I make dinner, we feed the people, but I really try not to be doing stuff other than just being with my family on that day. So taking the time, time to really think about what's important to you and creating whatever that balance is, understanding that it will never be what they say.
(:It can be in any book. It just won't like a farce. It's just false. But being okay with what you've decided and what works for you. Because as women, as women, we do have different roles just in life, and that's beautiful and lovely, and I love celebrating the roles of men, and I love celebrating the roles of women because I think they're necessary and they are absolutely beautiful in the scheme of things, but just allowing some grace for yourself, understanding that that balance is never going to be perfect. You're going to go from here to there and there and back again, but just figuring out what's really important to you and being disciplined enough to stick to that, and then just being flexible and maybe just abandoning some expectations with that because I feel like sometimes expectations really get us into trouble. We have these unrealistic expectations and they really just disappoint and they make us feel really bad about ourselves, so don't do that. Just be open and honest with you. I mean, that would be all that I have to say. I know that we have, women do have very unique situations, but just as a very full-time working mom, I think just being okay with the ebbs and flows of how life goes and giving yourself some grace.
Megan (:So shifting gears just a little bit, going to the western retail and leather working industry, how have you seen, and you can speak you as an industry, as a whole company, seen the industry evolve over the years and what trends are coming up that are exciting you?
Misty (:Oh, sure, man. I mean, in our company, since I'm completely married into this, but there have been so many changes. I feel like there are a lot more independent artisans out there that are venturing into the western retail space, which I think is really exciting. I think that people really value something that's going to last, and so they've been inspired by the past, whether it's a grandfather's satchel and just the longevity of heirloom quality products. I think that's probably the biggest change that I've seen. We're getting away from a fast fashion mantra like that's changing and more people, and rather than I go here, this is the place that you go to get your boots. There's just been a lot more independent boot makers or independent small, good leather workers. They're venturing into those spaces, so we just have, it's more of a personal experience when we're purchasing those products that we need, and we're really investing time as the consumer community to research the brand, the company, the person, the artisan, and really what I've seen is people are purchasing because of almost a personal connection that they either feel about the product, what the inspiration was for the product, how it was made, who made it, where it's made.
(:They're very much connecting themselves to some of those things. I think in the industry, well, for us and with Burns, I mean we really focus on educating our clients about the materials that we're using, about the process that has been taken in order to get the product that they're wearing or purchasing. I mentioned earlier that we are very, very, very passionate about educating the horsemen about the animal, about keeping those animals healthy and strong and performing at their highest level, and then taking the time to work with veterinarians and just continual learning within our own company to educate them. I think there's a lot more of that going on in today's world. People want a story behind their product. They really want to know the journey. They want to know where the leather came from and how it was sourced. They want to know who was making this product, and I think that's kind of the most exciting that I think that I personally see in the industry. I don't spend a ton of time there to know, oh, in the spring you should watch for these bright fancy colors. I don't do much of that, but I don't know. I think just almost that connection from the consumer to the artisan, I think there's really just more of a personal connection, and I'm seeing a lot more of that.
Megan (:Yeah, that's a great thing. Artists who are listening, take a hint from Misty and start putting that stuff on your Instagram. Put it in your newsletter. Let people connect. Let people hear that story, your story and the story of your product. If somebody is listening and they're like, oh, this place sounds awesome and I could learn so much, I kind of want to go work there. I want more information, where should they go?
Misty (:Sure. Well, we would love that. So if you're interested in Burns, just go to our website. It's just burns 1870 six.com. We have a careers page on there. We've put together a really great video and we're just talking to our team. I mean, it's just all of our team and they're just simply telling you why they love working. For us. We strive, like I mentioned earlier, we're a unique, unique in the fact that you don't need any experience. If you have an interest and want to learn, we will teach you to do whatever it is. If we have a spot available, we will teach you what we know, and collectively, we have decades of experience among our team, which is really, really great. As far as with Shoptalk and with ilum, our online learning platforms, I mean, go to our websites. It's shoptalk magazine.com or ium@lia.com and subscribe.
(:I mean, for the magazine, it's $45 a year. You get a magazine every month on time, which is really, really great. Sometimes I would say with small publications, I've heard that sometimes the consistency just isn't there, and we're very, very, very adamant that that happens. We upload files on the 15th day of every month, even if it's down to the wire for us, but we want to know. We want you to be able to trust us. The magazine's going to show up, and it's going to be there, and it's going to be reliable, and it's going to have valuable information. Always in the magazine, you're going to find editorial, which is really, really important I think, as an artisan, because I think a lot of times we feel like we are in our own little silos. We work alone. Typically, we work alone, and that can be lonely, shocker, but it's hard to feel like you're a part of a community when you are a one man shop or a one woman shop when you're working alone, and so I think just the editorial aspect of the magazine is probably, I feel like the most important part.
(:All the other stuff is really, really great too, to help you, but I love what the editorials do for the community as a whole. They really help you feel like you have a place here and nine times out of 10, somewhere within that year, you're going to see yourself, your story, your experience, your journey in somebody else's in some way, because so many of the stories are just so relatable, and I love that relativity between artisans, whether you're in Germany or you're in Nevada, it's the same, which is so wonderful, and as far as loom, I mean, we do take pride in taking advantage, maybe sorry, instructors, but really taking advantage of those relationships that we have forged and that really we care about these people that have spent the time really perfecting their skill and continually are growing and learning to even get better, so we bring them in.
(:We are grueling. I know I tell every one of them, I'm like, I'll probably make you cry by the end of this, just so you know. Just be forewarned because we always sit down and have an interview conversation, and almost all the time I end up making somebody cry, but it's just because we like those relationships are so authentic and we truly care about each other, and we truly care about the work that we're doing for the community, which I think is just so rewarding, so come and learn from some of our instructors. We aren't just a YouTube channel, the way we structure things. I have an instructional designer on my team who creates real curriculum for higher education in schools and companies, and so we're very, very, very much focused on disseminating the foundational skills needed for you to be successful at every level of craftsmanship. Wherever you are on your journey, if you're a beginner, if you're a master, you're still going to find stuff on a loom that will help you be better, which is really, really great. That's so
Megan (:Awesome. Anything we missed or anything you want people to know?
Misty (:I think sometimes as women, we're not quite as confident with our skills. I mean, I know I do this to myself all the time. I feel inferior or I feel like I'm not educated enough or because I don't have personal experience in the artistry of things that maybe I don't know quite enough to be talking about this at this level. I don't know. All lack some confidence, and honestly, I just think it's such crap as I've gotten older. I'm like, but why do we diminish our skills and our abilities and our uniqueness in whatever it is that we're doing, whether it's mothering or working or artistry or cooking, fill in the blank. I think just love yourself for where you are right now. Give yourself some grace. Never, ever, ever stop learning. Always seek opportunities to learn. Be humble enough and open to the learning so that you can become who you are destined to be, and that person will never ever meet your expectation because you're going to way overshoot that expectation. Because women, we always think that, oh, I could never do that. Yeah, you can do it. You can do it. Have the courage to do it. Have the confidence to do it. If you don't have the confidence yet, fake it till you make it. You'll get there. Just believe in yourself. Give yourself some grace. Don't be too hard on yourself and just continue to learn.
Megan (:That's fantastic advice. Well, thank you so much, Misty, for all of your time, and we told them to go to Shoptalk. Was there any or to Burns, was there any other points of contact you want to share with anyone?
Misty (:Just if you're interested in anything that we're doing at the media company, it's just that Shop Talk website and the Ium Lea website. We're working on some things for the media companies right now, but I can't say anything quite yet, but just kind of streamlining some of that to make it easier for the community to really access all that we have to offer, so that's exciting.
Megan (:Awesome. Thank you so much.
Misty (:Thank you, Megan, for having me. It's been a great time.
Megan (:Thank you for tuning into today's episode of Cowgirl Artists of America's podcast. I hope that you found encouragement and that you are inspired for your continued artistic practice. Remember that no matter where you are on your journey, whether you're a beginner artist or a well established artist, there is always something to learn. There's always new friends to make. There's always something to give. Thank you for being a part of this community. Happy creating.
